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Principled porn

There's an article up at the Huffington Post this week by awesome sex worker and activist Kitty Stryker, called Principled Pornography: How Queer/Indie Sites Are Reframing the Industry. It's about ethical porn with reference to some of the work being done by radical, independent and feminist porn studios, and Dreams of Spanking gets a mention. Kitty asks,

Is pornographic material inherently harmful to women and encouraging of violent behaviour in men? Or is it possible to be a socially conscious individual and still make, perform in, and consume pornography?

I say yes. In a capitalist world, granted, any consumption has multiple points of issue to be addressed and paid attention to, from sweatshop labour in clothing factories to migrant farmer rights, but I do believe that porn can be ethically produced.

When I've personally been called upon to describe what the phrase "ethical porn" means to me, I've talked about pornography produced with the pleasure of the participants in mind; porn that does not depend on male-gaze shooting techniques; porn that shows diversity in body types, gender identities, and sexual orientation; porn that allows the performers to have a say in how the action progresses and what happens.  

I'm quoted talking about the heteronormative male gaze and fair pay for male performers. There are also some excellent contributions by performers, producers and directors including Kelly Shibari, Maggie Mayhem and Jiz Lee. Click here to read the full article.

Kitty's partner Mike will be making his debut on Dreams of Spanking tomorrow, in a hot - and, yes, ethically produced - office punishment movie in which he and I get spanked by our new boss, senatorial candidate Ms Dana Kane. Watch this space!

Comments

Perceptions of Porn

I never talk about my interest in kink with friends or family. Sometimes, though, I get the impression – especially amongst other men – that the mention of an interest in M/F spanking porn would more likely be accepted by them. Simply because it fits with established perceptions of male-centric porn in general.

As it happens, I’m far more into F/F spanking. Yes, in part, because I like women, but also because it seems that there are relatively few really good male tops prepared to perform on camera. Maybe this is just to do with pay and conditions. You would know this better than I.

The idea that porn is about demeaning women for men’s gratification is a convenient political tool, especially when aimed at an ignorant public. I don’t see why the porn industry needs to be labelled like this, but if more of us are prepared to make intelligent choices in what we consume, rather than accepting what the mass market decides to feed us, then I’m optimistic that attitudes can be changed.

Various views on porn

It seems that spanking might go "mainstream". A post on www.chross.blogt.ch voices this opinion. Many of us who have been spankophiles for decades have been expecting this for a while.
As an aside, I have been expecting the advent of the information century as early as in 1970 and made my professional moves based on this expectation. I still have been very successful, but the information age started twenty years later!
So much for interpretation of trends!
I really think, spanking will be out of the smudge corner fairly soon. But there are problems within the spanking community which are highly interesting. I have made an interview with Kaelah (www.rohrstockpalast.blogspot.de) on M/M play outside the nearly 100% gay scene. That was a really interesting discussion. Perhaps, we do not need to worry about going mainstream but rather about our own perception and acceptance of M/F, F/F,F/M and M/M.
It seems that tolerance inside our own kink is far more limited than that of society at large concerning the spanking community as a whole.

I haven't seen the post on Chross' blog, but in my experience "mainstream" spanking or D/S references in the media are invariable M/F. Let's think: 50 Shades of Grey, A Dangerous Method, Secretary, Nine and a half weeks. There were those TV spankings in Weeds and Community, both M/F. The only F/F example I can think of is in Sugar Rush. The only F/M movie I can think of is Exit to Eden, a comic, crappy remake of a gothic BDSM romance. Because male submission is hilarious, right?

I can't think of a single mainstream media portrayal of M/M kink. Maybe there isn't as much difference as you suggest.

Mainstream

We are not very far apart, Pandora: In order to be acceptable as mainstream, movies have to have some quality which all the ones you mentioned have. These movies have moved spanking out of the taboo zone, where it had been buried for at least 30 years.
M/M is very different. Men are very much more adverse to bodily contact than are women. We have found that in the discussion in Kaelah's blog very clearly. I think M/M will not go - in mainstream - beyond playful slaps or paddlings in fraternity play.

M/M Play

Thank you Jimmy,
very nice of Pandora, to get you into this thread (or didn't she?). You of all male models are particularly qualified to comment on this theme.
Perhaps a man has to be bisexual in order to accept M/M play in non-sexual scenarios and perform without particular inhibitions.
As you can read in Kaelah's Blog on M/M play, I was confronted with the alternative to opt out or spank two men in a weekend school play. There was not much time to think it over, actually there was none!
So I took the plunge and caned two male behinds, one of them three times in a row. It was a no-contact affair. They were bending over a horse, but bare.
For me, as a heterosexual male - the non-answered (yet) question is - of course - would I put a man over my knee and spank his bare behind with my hand?
I am almost sure, I will never get a chance to try my luck :-)
Do you have any idea, why the chaperone (presence of a woman) is such a big issue in M/M play by heterosexual men? I personally think, I am enough of a man to risk it all by myself :-).

I'm not sure how much I can comment on M/M spanking, but I'm definitely aware of the 'chaperone' phenomenon, known more crudely as "it's not gay if it's in a three-way." I've been involved in more than a couple of kinky scenes where there has been M/M play but with the occasional nod to the female chaperone or even a reaching out and touching to make sure that male-female contact is still being made in some way. I think it can be a positive in the sense of 'allowing' M/M contact to take place in a way that may be more comfortable for participants who want to have some fun play with another man but aren't sure of their own comfort levels, but at the same time I worry that it is used to reassure people that 'it's all still straight, really' (or, again, to borrow a more common term "no homo"), which seems... unnecessary, at least.

That's a good way of putting it. It's something I've had requested by lots of men in M/M video too: put a woman in there, watching, and suddenly they feel more comfortable. I think you're spot on in describing the anxiety this arises from.

I think it's possible for someone to not eroticise male bodies, or want to play directly with a man, but to find the fantasy of M/M play hot regardless. A female present gives them a focus for their sexual energy, a more straightforward way of eroticising the scene. In my experience it's particularly common with historical/school/judicial fantasies, because the fantasy is based in authentic historical reality and having a female administer the punishment would be unrealistic, and they want realism, but the M/M reality is an inconvenience for the heterosexual fantasist. Inserting a woman into the fantasy takes the pressure off.

Personally I think there's nothing wrong with fantasising about a situation with someone you don't fancy, or which you wouldn't find sexy in reality. Many of us have those fantasies, and having those fantasies doesn't mean you'd find it pleasant in reality.

It's a side-effect of the labelling fallacy, I think: a lot of people seem to think that fantasising about something puts you into a certain category forever, when actually, sexual desire is far more amorphous and random and fluid than that.

This comment was edited on 22 May 2013, to comply with a censorship demand from CCBill.

Gender for me has never been the issue

As someone who can relate to all gender pairings when it comes to spanking, I frankly don't understand what the big deal is with male/male spanking that has no overt sexual indications as are often found in M/F, F/M and gay M/M and F/F erotic spanking but which adheres strictly to the attraction to spanking as a purely disciplinary act. I am straight and have been with the same woman happily for several decades, yet my first experiences with spanking as a boy was almost universally disciplinary and male/male. I have known a number of men into spanking who most openly play with members of the opposite gender but who often want or clandestinely engage in disciplinary spanking with other men. The hesitancy to just go with the flow seems to me to be a conditioned response that is provided not because there is no desire to experience male/male disciplinary spanking but because there is a fear of being viewed as gay. Sadly, I think. For me, it is the act of spanking that holds the eroticism. Gender pairings are more related to my experience than sexuality. Spanking women and being spanked by women is more eroticized because of my heterosexuality than because of the spanking. Male/male spanking has its appeal because of it familiarity in my history and the strong disciplinary connection it holds.

So Mr. Stryker, as a huge fan, I would hope that someday there is a scene of you being soundly and thoroughly spanked bare bottom (perhaps with a sturdy wooden brush) by an older male actor playing your irate dad. Perhaps an older female actress can also participate and hold your hand while she watches if that makes you more comfortable.

Thanks for this comment bennygowding! I KNEW there must be gentlemen like you out there.

It hasn't escaped my notice that the vast majority of ALL institutional spankings administered historically - in military, judicial, school contexts - were of men by men. For many of us these memories are personal. All our spanking kinks are influenced by this history, and yet so many carefully erase any hint of M/M interaction from their public discussion of kink. I cannot think of any other explanation than embedded homophobia... the kind of received homophobia an individual is not conscious of, but which means they do not notice, or challenge, this bias when they see it. After all, men just aren't as attractive to look at as women... right?

WRONG! Only a particularly biased heterosexual male would think this: and they do not represent the human race.

For me this is a female gaze issue - women as well as gay men like to look at men, why shouldn't we have fetish imagery that's intended for us to enjoy? But you're absolutely correct that it doesn't have to be about enjoying men sexually at all. In fact in some ways that idea is a very top-centric view that assumes the viewer is looking at the spankee as a sexual object. What about those of us who identify as the spankee? What if we identify as male? If we fantasise about the male authority figures that permeate our history, does that say anything about who we like to fuck?

Of course it doesn't.

Thankyou for speaking up. I'm so glad to hear your voice on this.

I'd love to shoot an M/M scene with Mike, but one consequence of this received homophobic bias is that older male spankers are usually uninterested in working with male spankees. Believe me, I've asked a few. The oldest guy I've found who's willing to do it is Tom, and while that would be all sorts of hot, I'm not sure he looks old enough to be Mike's dad. I'm thinking boss/employer/senior officer though... what do you reckon?

Female chaperone in M/M

Two days ago, I reopend the M/M thread on Kaelah's blog (www.rohrstockpalast.blogspot.de) because of the development in this thread here from "principled porn" to M/M play.
We also had one late commenter who voiced having no qualms at all playing M/M as a heterosexual man. So I answered on this post and it is live again.
Now, you make some very sound comments on the chaperone side line of M/M play, thank you both.
Since Kaelah readers don't have access to this Blog here, Pandora, I took the liberty, to copy Mike and your analysis of the chaperone theme and propose to paste them into the Kaelah thread on M/M (of course with referencing). I hope it is OK with both of you.

This blog is public, so feel free to link to this conversation on Kaelah's blog!

Corrections within postings

Unfortunately, I was wrong in my comment above, non-members of your site would not have access to the blog.
That made me look for ways to correct mistakes like that one. Would there be a way to open the comment and take out the last paragraph?

I don't currently have an edit comment function, but if you want to repost I can delete the old one and my reply.

Correcting comments

Thanks, Pandora, I think we can let it as it is, but that edit function would not be bad!

Oh totally, it would be awesome. But I need to finish paying D for the last bit of development work he did before I can hire him for the next one. And to be honest there are more important things to do first - recurring billing, for a start.

Uhhh I have a question about the website in general as well.
Is it possible to view peoples user profiles somewhere? I mean I know that you can check people out by clicking on the user names in the blogposts comments, but I was wondering if they are all put together somewhere. I know that this site isn't exactly Facebook ;o) I just though that it would be interesting to read about people using this site. I'm curious I guess.
I appologize for my really shitty english this morning! :o)

Ooh, that's a really interesting idea! I have a list in the admin area, but there isn't one that's publically visible.

Most people who have created profiles haven't filled them out with any information. I wonder if there would be a way of listing the profiles that were filled out, though? And I wonder if people wouldn't mind? Maybe I'll ask in a blogpost. Really interesting question, DD, thankyou!

User list

Hi DD :)

Neat idea! I took a quick look at the code and it wouldn't be too hard to add that feature, so as Pandora says it's mostly just a matter of checking that people who've already filled in their profiles wouldn't be made uncomfortable by them suddenly being slightly easier to find.

Regards,
D.

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